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Need lots of advise
#1
I think I have went about this horse thing very backwards and so I some advice on how to go forward. I bought a horse for pleasure riding around my house and the horse I bought the owner assured me that she would be great for what I was going to do. Well, she did do what I wanted for about a month and then she picked up on that I was not a horse trainer or that i did not know a whole lot about what I was doing and now I have a 2000lb lawnmower with legs. So can someone suggest books for me or a good website. I have looked at some good websites and I don't have a roundpen (if I had one not sure what to do with it) so I am at a complete loss. My husband suggests that I sell her and buy another horse that is trained and older but I told him that I felt like I would be back in the same boat I am in now. Anyone have any suggestions on where I need to start or stop.
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#2
Welcome to the forum, High Pocket. Along with using books and videos for training tips, I would suggest taking a few riding lessons. This would greatly boost your confidence when dealing with your equine lawn mower.

It doesn't take long for a horse to get your number and begin to act up.

What kind of horse do you have?
Appygirl

Man does not have the only memory,
The animals remember,
The earth remembers,
The stones remember,
If you know how to listen, they will tell you many things.
- Claude Kuwanijuma - Hopi Spiritual leader


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#3
Thanks for the welcome. I have been reading here for about a month and this is my first post. I am not real sure the lady gave me papers and said that she had never gotten around to registering her but I could register her as a Palomino or a Quarter Horse but I don't know much about that either. But I do know she is red and her mane and tail is just a shade lighter than she is, she is 5 yrs old and I have had her a year. I have a donkey that I keep with her and they aggravate each other to death. I think he maybe some of her behavior problem. I live in a very rural area and there is not any really professional trainers here; mostly just people that have been around horses all there life and I haven't really went down that rabbit trail because of not knowing what to look for in a persons training abilities. Guess what I am saying is I don't know what is neccessary in training and somethings I can't handle seeing and I won't allow to be done to my horse but I guess I need to find someone I trust. I hear of things that some people do to their horses and I just shudder but they assure me that it is normal but I guess I am too tender hearted. Maybe that is why my horse, Dixie, acts the way she does. Anyway I have rattled on too much to answer a simple question. [Smile]
Annette
Anyone who says sunshine brings happiness has never danced in the rain. ~Author Unknown
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#4
There is a very fine line between abuse and what's right. Some people would think just putting a saddle on a horse and a piece of iron in their mouth is abusive. And there's another fine line between being to harsh with a horse and not being firm enough.

A horse is a herd animal and looks to the horse next highest up in the pecking order to tell him what he can and cannot do. When you work with or ride your horse, you must be the one higher up in the pecking order. You must be the alpha horse in your relationship. As you just pointed out, a horse is a huge animal when compared to us humans. BTW: I doubt very much that your horse would weigh 2000 lbs., not unless he's a draft horse. The average riding horse is around 1000 lbs., but that's still a lot of animal.

When you have a problem with your horse, you must first decide whether he understands fully what you are asking him to do. Are your cues clear and concise? If the answer is "yes", then the horse is just being a bully and knows how to push your buttons so he can do what he wants to do instead of what you want him to do. You are no longer the alpha leader in your herd of two... he is. And if they are not, it's still the same thing. He knows immediately that you don't know what you're doing, will ignore your cues, and go his merry way.

You say you have watched your horse and donkey interact with each other? Which one is the herd leader? How does the herd leader treat the other one, and what are the results? This is very much like you must treat your horse when you know it's deliberate misbehavior. Watch your horse when you work around him. Try to see what he does before he misbehaves and try to correct it before it happens. I know this isn't easy, but this is how training a horse is done... and if you cannot handle this, then you would be better off getting a better trained, more experienced horse that will put up with your mistakes. Believe it or not, they are out there but very hard to come by.

I guess what I'm trying to do is give you an overall look at what is expected from your horse and what is expected from you as a horse owner. Study your horse's behavior. Watch his reactions closely when he's at liberty, when he's hassling the donkey, when you are working with him. This alone can teach you a lot. One book I would highly reccomend would be "Lyons on Horses" by John Lyons, though there are other good books out there. Clinicians to watch on videos or read their books would John Lyons, that I've already mentioned, Clinton Anderson, and Pat Parelli. There are many, many others, but they are all basically the same... just have different approaches that achieve the same thing.

Do you have a tack shop or a feed store with a bulletin board? Look it over occasionally and see if there are any horse clinics scheduled in your area. You can find some listed in any major horse publication such as "Horse & Rider", Horse Illustrated", or "Western Horseman". These clinics can teach you a lot if you can't find someone to give you lessons. I know you said you don't want to go that route, but a mentor would be invaluable if you can find one worth their salt. Most trainers are usually willing to help you learn as they train your horse.

And. lastly, if you have any one problem in particular, we here at DE are more than willing to do our best to steer you in the right direction either by hands on experience or toward someone who may be able to help you. Just let us know [Wink].
"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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#5
I agree with Appygirl, the best bet would be to take some lessons. If that is not possible, then search for books and tapes from some of the new style (some call it natural horsemanship) trainers, like Buck Branaman, John Lyons, Clinton Anderson, Craig Cameron, or several others. IF you can find someone in your area who is good with horses, even if they are not a professional, and they employ this new style of horsemanship (I would stay away from the old fashioned, "hit 'em over the head" mentality), they may be able to help you out. You and your husband may have both been a little bit right, you might have done better with an older horse, but in a short time they would get your number, too. Besides, now you already have a horse you love.
"You learn a thing a day, you store up smart" - Festus Haggen

"A man’s soul can’t be hidden,
From the creatures in his care." -
Hard Candy Cowboy by Debra Meyer


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#6
I agree 100% with your husband. And I speak from having been in your EXACT same situation. I had a 3 year old gelding who was a wonderful horse when I got him because he was owned, trained and ridden by a very experienced, very "in charge" rider. So when I got him, he was fine for about three months, and then, since I just wasn't experienced enough to teach him what he needed to know and to keep him sharp, he quickly figured it out and started becoming more and more of a challenge. There was just oo much inexperience on both sides, and it led to a broken hip last fall! (Mine, not his!)

I now have three older horses, two who are 16 and one who is 18, and believe me, riding is so much more pleasurable than before. The older horses are more forgiving, have been ridden thousands of miles, and are much more patient and willing to listen than the younger, less trained horse. Yes, they figure out real fast if you are not all that experienced, but they also get back in line very quickly with just a little ground work. And two of them are actually "babysitters" who will take care of an inexperienced rider...it's almost as if they know they have a kid or a novice on their back and won't take off running if accidently kicked, etc.

The older, more well trained horse will help you build YOUR confidence and make riding more enjoyable. I have learned more about riding from my older horses than I ever could have from that young one.

I think you would see a world of difference with an older, wiser horse...and yes, they might challenge you, but the really good ones won't challenge too hard, and they won't argue with you all the time like the young ones who are full of it and dont' know any better will.

Just my opinion formed from my experience. And I don't want to insult you or sound mean, but unless this 5 year old is a phenomenal horse that is very well broke, listens very well, and is super quiet--I think it's too young of a horse for your experience level. I think if you got a good, well-broke older horse you would spend a lot more time in the saddle, and that's the best teacher of all.
Flooper

"I'm a man. I can change. If I have to. I guess."
The Man's Prayer from the Red Green Show
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#7
quote:
Originally posted by FLOOPER

unless this 5 year old is a phenomenal horse that is very well broke, listens very well, and is super quiet--I think it's too young of a horse for your experience level.



Heck, a 5-year old horse is too young for me! The youngest horse I've ridden was 8, and that was how old Hi-Grey was when I bought him.
Appygirl

Man does not have the only memory,
The animals remember,
The earth remembers,
The stones remember,
If you know how to listen, they will tell you many things.
- Claude Kuwanijuma - Hopi Spiritual leader


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#8
Annette, and Flooper, I too was in this exact situation. I am trying to buck (forgive the pun) the green on green curse. I was a "no experience, first horse owner" at age 50 and my horse was an unbroke, never ridden, 3 year old. I knew going in that it was going to be up to me, with my trainer's help, to make this work. And it has been tough at times. If I had it all to do over, I might not do it this way, but I'm in it now and determined to make it work. Besides, there's no way I could part with Max now, even if I have to end up getting another horse. But, with much perserverance, and a few bumps and bruises (well, OK maybe more than a few), we are making headway. Only time will tell if we will make a good partnership, but I believe we will.
I believe the green on green theories have merit, but I also believe you can work through it, although it won't be easy and there will be some discouragement along the way as well as victories. The big keys are perserverance, and to get some good help. A good suit of armor wouldn't hurt either.
"You learn a thing a day, you store up smart" - Festus Haggen

"A man’s soul can’t be hidden,
From the creatures in his care." -
Hard Candy Cowboy by Debra Meyer


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#9
Hymyer,

Like you, I started in horses at 50 with a 3 year old (he was broke). Went okay for a year, then I got my hip broke. I loved that horse, but I can honestly say riding is SOOOOOOOOOOOO much more enjoyable with my current older, well broke horses. I think some people (like you) can pull off the green on green thing. But I think they are very few and far between. Give me those old, well broke ones anyday!!!
Flooper

"I'm a man. I can change. If I have to. I guess."
The Man's Prayer from the Red Green Show
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#10
Thanks for the advise and yeah your are right she is about 1000lbs or less. It's the bull that is 2000lbs.[:I]
Watching the donkey and Dixie I am not sure about the herd leader. They are still fighting over who is going to be in front on the way to the water trough. They bite each other on the neck in as they try to get in front of each other to go to the trough. If I go in the back pasture to get Dixie the donkey will get between me and her and try to stop me from getting to her. Once I get to her and put the lead rope on donkey will make a low hissing noise that I barely can hear and Dixie will throw her head up and the white of her eyes will show and she will refuse to move all the while Donkey is trying his best to bite her and intimidate me. Once I get her out of the pasture and to the barn she is okay till donkey gets to the fence and then her attention is on him because he is braying and hissing. She seems to have potential but I think the donkey keeps her on edge. She seems scared of everything outside the pasture. I can't put fly spray on her, can't bathe her, can't ride her anywhere new, can't load her, but I can brush her, lead her, she is good for the farrier, & easy to catch.

So, I guess the reason I even posted is to see my problems wrote down and share with some people that understand. I am kinda like Horse Rider that has posted some here. I rode 20 years ago when I was young enough to not wonder "what if" and then life took over and I got rid of the horse and started living what I thought was life. A year ago I looked back through my life and realized that the best time of my life was when I had a horse in it. So I got another horse and my "what if" paranoia is so deep that it is affecting me bonding with this horse. I try explaining this to my darling husband and all he says is "Do you have time for this horse? If you don't get rid of it and get another one when you do have time." To have time is to prioritize it.
So, my first question is: How many hours a day do I need to spend to bond with this horse and is grooming my first step with working on that until I get some DVD's and a mentor?

I have read about the ppl that you mentioned and I think I like Clint Anderson the best. I watch him on TV when I get a chance.



Annette
Anyone who says sunshine brings happiness has never danced in the rain. ~Author Unknown
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